Escort mk1 rs2000 periode h
finner ikkje noe bilde av bur i homologerings papirer, i papirene er det mange ting som er "valid for group2 only" så da må vel gruppe2 vere tillat da? utbyggere står group2 på og zf kasse også, er litt uklart ja men må finne ut av det for det er dette som blir avgjørende for om bilen evt skal bygges over til historisk resten er skrudde ting og er "lett og fikse"
Jeg tror ikke det er vanlig at det står så mye om bur i homologeringspapirene. Dersom du kan bevise at det ble kjørt internasjonale løp men RS 2000 i 1975 med bur frem til tårnene vil FIA godta det. Men det enkleste er å forholde seg til 6 innfestningspunkt og ferdig med det.
Er det 2l Pinto som er maskinisten i disse bilene
Geir...
Er det 2l Pinto som er maskinisten i disse bilene
Geir...
Vegard wrote:Finnes det Escort MK2 med BDA eller andre BD`er?
På tide med litt historie undervisning skjønner jeg..
Løp og kjøp:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vatanen-Touch-Ari/dp/B0000DINN3
og deretter:
http://raipr.com/downloads/Sevenoaks/Gi ... 0store.jpg
Edwin Solheim
1964 Austin Mini Cooper S
Life begins @ 6000 rpm!
1964 Austin Mini Cooper S
Life begins @ 6000 rpm!
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Holm Jacob Matheson
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Appendix K (5.13.5) henviser til burskisser som finnes i den moderne utgaven av appendix J. Leter en frem disse skissene mener jeg dette er mulighetene vi har pr idag. En ser at noen henvisninger til skisser i siste utgave av appendix K datert 10.11.2008 er i rødt.
Kan ikke forstå annet enn at det 7. og 8. innfetningspunktet er hvis en tar et rør fra hovedbøylen (B stolpen) ned i dørterskelen og opp til A stolpen. Dette i tillegg til et rør tvers over mellom A og B stolpen. Stemmer dette begynner buret å komme seg sikkerhetsmessig, FIA er tydeligvis litt på gli!
HJM
Kan ikke forstå annet enn at det 7. og 8. innfetningspunktet er hvis en tar et rør fra hovedbøylen (B stolpen) ned i dørterskelen og opp til A stolpen. Dette i tillegg til et rør tvers over mellom A og B stolpen. Stemmer dette begynner buret å komme seg sikkerhetsmessig, FIA er tydeligvis litt på gli!
HJM
Fordkjører
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Dag-Henning Nielsen
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Fant noe om RS 2000 i historisk motorsport øyemed på et UK forum, kanskje noe matnyttig her...(oversettelse tilbys IKKE.. ):
Escort RS2000 Gr.2 specifications
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As I am interested in building an Escort RS2000 for historic motorsport I read through the Homologation papers, Appendix J of 1975, 1976, 1981 and the current Appendix K 2009 to see which modifications are legal for group 2 and which are not.
I thought it’s a good idea to post the outcome to let the experts have a look if I’m right or wrong. Starting with the suspension.
--------------------------------Escort Mk1 RS2000 -----Escort Mk2 RS2000
---------------------------------Gr.2 Appendix J 75 -------Gr.2 Appendix J 81
Front Suspension
Rose joint rubber top mount ----------------Yes--------------------Yes
Rose joint alloy top mount ------------------Yes--------------------Yes
Adjustable/ eccentric top mount -------------No---------------------No
Height adjustable front leg-------------------No?--------------------No?
Small diameter spring------------------------No?--------------------No?
It’s allowed to machining (threadcutting) the leg/changing the spring but is it allowed to change the spring seats for adjustable and/or smaller ones?
Adjustable dampers (bump/ rebound)--------No---------------------No? Doesn’t exist in period?
Poly bushes---------------------------------No?--------------------No? Doesn’t exist in period?
Solid mounted ARB (alloy blocks) ----------Yes--------------------Yes
Adjustable TCA-----------------------------No---------------------No
Compression strutkit---------------------------Yes---------------------No
Tension strut kit------------------------------Yes---------------------No
The steering ratio is free, provided that the original steering box is kept.
Rear Suspension
Panhard rod---------------------------------Yes---------------------No
Watts link-----------------------------------Yes---------------------No
Additional (to anti tramp bars)
lower tension struts--------------------------Yes---------------------No
Four link kit brackets (short)-----------------Yes---------------------No
App.J75: In the case of a rigid axle rear suspension it is allowed to add locating arms and their mounting brackets.
Turrets--------------------------------------Yes?---------------------No
App.J75: Complete freedom is also left as regards the number of shock-absorbers, type and fitting, provided no mechanical part be modified beyond the limits fixed under Art. 260a). Nevertheless, mounting brackets may be added to the chassis and suspension elements.
Slipper leaf springs---------------------------Yes---------------------No
Coil over dampers---------------------------Yes----------------------?
App.J75: It is allowed to add auxiliary springs. But: Complete freedom is left as regards springs provided the main type of spring is not changed. So the leaf springs have to stay.
Anti roll bar----------------------------------Yes---------------------Yes
Adjustable dampers, Poly bushes see Front Suspension
So if this is correct there is nothing much to modify on an Mk2 RS2000 Escort suspension.
Is it possible that some mods are allowed by the FIA although they are not conforming to App.J? Nearly every historic Mk2 RS2000 rally car I have seen was fitted with a panhard rod. And there are also Mk2 Escorts with adjustable dampers or wide tarmac arches which don’t fit into the rules.
What I still don’t know is if a modification have only to be legal within the rules of Appendix J of the period or if I also have to prove that this modification has been done in the period.
I’m very interested in your opinion.
Cheers,
Thomas
Svar
As Jimmyd posted the Mk2 RS2000 was recognised as Evolution in Production. They did the same with the RS1600/RS1800. In April 1977 the RS1800 Gr.4 only was homologated because of rule changes from the Appendix J 1976 onwards. There was less freedom for the modifications of the suspension, engine and gearbox. The adherence to minimum production for option parts was more strictly controlled. Many of the Group 2/4 goodies recognised before 1976 were cancelled. For example the Lancia Stratos, op#% kaputt GT/E and Toyota Celica 2000GT lost there 16valve cylinder heads.
Appendix J 1976, Art. 261NB
Mechanical elements recognised in Group 2 before 31.12.75 as well as the authorised modifications according to the prescriptions of Art 260 of former Appendix J can be used until 31.12.77 for rallies. The car will be automatically transferred to Group4.
So I think you can use the all to Gr.2 mods and parts (Holbay 16v head, fuel injection, ZF Gearbox) which are allowed for the Mk1 RS2000 for the Mk2 RS2000 too, but only with the original RS2000 front and not with the flat front. The production variant of the Austrailian flat front Escort was not homologated until the 1.2.1978.
From 31.12.77 nearly all of the “valid for Group 2 only” parts were cancelled.
Suspension parts like tension strut kit, height adjustable front leg, adjustable tca, Panhard rod and four link kit were homologated for the RS1800 but NOT for the MK1/2 RS2000.
So these modifications are only possible if the rules of Appendix J allow them.
And there is still the question if you have to prove that these modifications have been done at that time.
2. svar
Just be clear - I see your location is Austria - what regs do the events you want to enter run to? Sadly, historic regs vary a lot between countries.
FIA Appendix K applies to major European historic events.
UK "British Historic Rally Championship" regs are different and up to 31.12.74. allow any modification used in period if you can provide evidence of it being so used. For 1.1.75. to 31.12.81. Homologated spec applies, with some exemptions (see HRCT site - can provide link, including some late changes that seem to be going ahead without warning/statutory MSA notice).
Ireland is different.
Belgian historic championship (which many UK competitiors run in) has its own regs and I have just seen it is iintroducing a "silouette" category outside the main historic championship for some cars that were excluded from starting in events in 2008.
From your posts, you largely have a full understanding of the regs as we recognise them in UK. A Mk2 flat front RS2000 is fine under UK regs, as the category is up to end 81. As you recognise, all earlier Mk1 Appendix J or homologated Gp2 mods are eligible on a Mk2, as homologation is on the same papers via "evolution" rules. You recognise Gp2 changed drastically for 1976 (because the UK Historic Category 3 runs from 1.1.75, the competitive Mk2 RS2000s are all to 75 spec, not 76-81 spec).
The UK championship has just allowed 205 blocks on RS2000s and has just clamped down on inclined inlet tracts using Sierrra injection Pinto heads (not an "in period" mod on a Mk1 and not an Appendix J or homologated mod on a MK2 because it involves addition of material not removal - a long standing Appendix J no no).
):Escort RS2000 Gr.2 specifications
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As I am interested in building an Escort RS2000 for historic motorsport I read through the Homologation papers, Appendix J of 1975, 1976, 1981 and the current Appendix K 2009 to see which modifications are legal for group 2 and which are not.
I thought it’s a good idea to post the outcome to let the experts have a look if I’m right or wrong. Starting with the suspension.
--------------------------------Escort Mk1 RS2000 -----Escort Mk2 RS2000
---------------------------------Gr.2 Appendix J 75 -------Gr.2 Appendix J 81
Front Suspension
Rose joint rubber top mount ----------------Yes--------------------Yes
Rose joint alloy top mount ------------------Yes--------------------Yes
Adjustable/ eccentric top mount -------------No---------------------No
Height adjustable front leg-------------------No?--------------------No?
Small diameter spring------------------------No?--------------------No?
It’s allowed to machining (threadcutting) the leg/changing the spring but is it allowed to change the spring seats for adjustable and/or smaller ones?
Adjustable dampers (bump/ rebound)--------No---------------------No? Doesn’t exist in period?
Poly bushes---------------------------------No?--------------------No? Doesn’t exist in period?
Solid mounted ARB (alloy blocks) ----------Yes--------------------Yes
Adjustable TCA-----------------------------No---------------------No
Compression strutkit---------------------------Yes---------------------No
Tension strut kit------------------------------Yes---------------------No
The steering ratio is free, provided that the original steering box is kept.
Rear Suspension
Panhard rod---------------------------------Yes---------------------No
Watts link-----------------------------------Yes---------------------No
Additional (to anti tramp bars)
lower tension struts--------------------------Yes---------------------No
Four link kit brackets (short)-----------------Yes---------------------No
App.J75: In the case of a rigid axle rear suspension it is allowed to add locating arms and their mounting brackets.
Turrets--------------------------------------Yes?---------------------No
App.J75: Complete freedom is also left as regards the number of shock-absorbers, type and fitting, provided no mechanical part be modified beyond the limits fixed under Art. 260a). Nevertheless, mounting brackets may be added to the chassis and suspension elements.
Slipper leaf springs---------------------------Yes---------------------No
Coil over dampers---------------------------Yes----------------------?
App.J75: It is allowed to add auxiliary springs. But: Complete freedom is left as regards springs provided the main type of spring is not changed. So the leaf springs have to stay.
Anti roll bar----------------------------------Yes---------------------Yes
Adjustable dampers, Poly bushes see Front Suspension
So if this is correct there is nothing much to modify on an Mk2 RS2000 Escort suspension.
Is it possible that some mods are allowed by the FIA although they are not conforming to App.J? Nearly every historic Mk2 RS2000 rally car I have seen was fitted with a panhard rod. And there are also Mk2 Escorts with adjustable dampers or wide tarmac arches which don’t fit into the rules.
What I still don’t know is if a modification have only to be legal within the rules of Appendix J of the period or if I also have to prove that this modification has been done in the period.
I’m very interested in your opinion.
Cheers,
Thomas
Svar
As Jimmyd posted the Mk2 RS2000 was recognised as Evolution in Production. They did the same with the RS1600/RS1800. In April 1977 the RS1800 Gr.4 only was homologated because of rule changes from the Appendix J 1976 onwards. There was less freedom for the modifications of the suspension, engine and gearbox. The adherence to minimum production for option parts was more strictly controlled. Many of the Group 2/4 goodies recognised before 1976 were cancelled. For example the Lancia Stratos, op#% kaputt GT/E and Toyota Celica 2000GT lost there 16valve cylinder heads.
Appendix J 1976, Art. 261NB
Mechanical elements recognised in Group 2 before 31.12.75 as well as the authorised modifications according to the prescriptions of Art 260 of former Appendix J can be used until 31.12.77 for rallies. The car will be automatically transferred to Group4.
So I think you can use the all to Gr.2 mods and parts (Holbay 16v head, fuel injection, ZF Gearbox) which are allowed for the Mk1 RS2000 for the Mk2 RS2000 too, but only with the original RS2000 front and not with the flat front. The production variant of the Austrailian flat front Escort was not homologated until the 1.2.1978.
From 31.12.77 nearly all of the “valid for Group 2 only” parts were cancelled.
Suspension parts like tension strut kit, height adjustable front leg, adjustable tca, Panhard rod and four link kit were homologated for the RS1800 but NOT for the MK1/2 RS2000.
So these modifications are only possible if the rules of Appendix J allow them.
And there is still the question if you have to prove that these modifications have been done at that time.
2. svar
Just be clear - I see your location is Austria - what regs do the events you want to enter run to? Sadly, historic regs vary a lot between countries.
FIA Appendix K applies to major European historic events.
UK "British Historic Rally Championship" regs are different and up to 31.12.74. allow any modification used in period if you can provide evidence of it being so used. For 1.1.75. to 31.12.81. Homologated spec applies, with some exemptions (see HRCT site - can provide link, including some late changes that seem to be going ahead without warning/statutory MSA notice).
Ireland is different.
Belgian historic championship (which many UK competitiors run in) has its own regs and I have just seen it is iintroducing a "silouette" category outside the main historic championship for some cars that were excluded from starting in events in 2008.
From your posts, you largely have a full understanding of the regs as we recognise them in UK. A Mk2 flat front RS2000 is fine under UK regs, as the category is up to end 81. As you recognise, all earlier Mk1 Appendix J or homologated Gp2 mods are eligible on a Mk2, as homologation is on the same papers via "evolution" rules. You recognise Gp2 changed drastically for 1976 (because the UK Historic Category 3 runs from 1.1.75, the competitive Mk2 RS2000s are all to 75 spec, not 76-81 spec).
The UK championship has just allowed 205 blocks on RS2000s and has just clamped down on inclined inlet tracts using Sierrra injection Pinto heads (not an "in period" mod on a Mk1 and not an Appendix J or homologated mod on a MK2 because it involves addition of material not removal - a long standing Appendix J no no).
Jørn M. Hanssen